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66 days ago.
by slinky
harryanderson
#1

Thankfully, the anti-science propaganda campaign surrounding man-made climate change seems to have lost some of its effect.

Are you seeing storm clouds on the horizon? Two recent studies suggest that the latest anti-science campaign is following its forerunners--the propaganda campaigns attempting to refute science that tobacco causes cancer, that CFC's caused the hole in the ozone layer, and so on—into oblivion. Global warming denial seems to have climbed to a peak in 2010, and global warming acceptance is now climbing. This bodes well for rational public policy.

 
 

Member Comments

harryanderson

I agree. We should be wary of studies commissioned by organizations with a clear political or economic agenda. That includes both sides. Still, we shouldn’t discount or accept those studies without honestly critiquing them.

Earlier, you mentioned US government-commissioned studies conducted between 1993 and 2012. Evidently those studies were commissioned by both Democratic and Republican administrations and funded by both Democratic and Republican congresses. Governments with different political and ideological perspectives ordered and funded them. So we might expect different results. Is there any difference?

Different administrations may trumpet or downplay results depending on ideology, but is there any difference in the actual scientific findings? Have any government climate studies, even those conducted by conservatives in Bush’s administration, disproved the idea that greenhouse gases are changing the climate?

Posted 861 days ago.

harryanderson

“Harry it is precisely the over reach of the left and the fact that alarmists ignore the signs that entrenched we who doubt.”

True. Some have appealed to emotion and hyped the evidence, and that hardens the position of those who, like yourself, consider it a political rather than a scientific discussion.

As for myself, I refuse to be swayed by paralyzing fear, hype, cultural disdain, and unproven political conspiracy theories.

Posted 862 days ago.

harryanderson

“I have said from day one that if you pay me enough I can correlate anything to climate change.”

And I have asked you from day one to show where any grantors gave grants on the condition that the recipients of those grants prove a connection between global climate change and greenhouse gases.

The first time I asked, you were honest, and admitted that you knew of no specific grant. Yet you keep repeating the charge. And after that first time, you also keep refusing to answer the question.

Posted 862 days ago.

harryanderson

“You true believers never give a second of thought to the leaked emails and the damning evidence. You dismiss it as nothing.”

I gave it plenty of thought at first, but after “six official investigations have cleared scientists of accusations of wrongdoing,” I don’t believe the stolen emails are “damning evidence.”

Now I have a question for you, if you dare to address it. Do you dismiss the six official investigations as nothing?

You may read more about these six official investigations from the Union of Concerned Scientists at

ht tp://ww w.ucsusa.or g/global_warming/solutions/fight-misinformation/debunking-misinformation-stolen-emails-climategate.html

Posted 862 days ago.

luvthesouth

Tiredofit, thank you and that was very thoughtful of you. use of this forum is something i enjoy and respect. to stray off-topic too far in my opinion is being rude to the other contributors. that is why i suggested that maybe the discussion should be continued elsewhere...everyone and anyone can join in on another thread. y'all enjoy the current topic and please continue

Posted 862 days ago.

luvthesouth

mythravere, thank you... the lucheon went very well. good time and plenty of tasty food to enjoy. i think a new topic for our discussion would be a grand idea. i noticed that kendall78 started one in the general froums titled...God, Time and Hawking. i think maybe ours might would stray away from his intent...who knows maybe not. either way i think in the end the questions and doubts you harbor will never be overcome if you truely feel that the ulitmate God, if they exist must somehow adhere to everyone's particular definition or vision of who or what God is or should be. however, it may be worth the time in which to have that discussion if you would be interested...so please feel free to have the honor in creating and naming the topic and choosing its location. you can be its creator...

Posted 862 days ago.

mythravere

There are two questions that need answering.

If we are the cause how much time do we have and what do we need to do to mitigate climate change.

Secondly if we just don't have time to mitigate it or the costs are just too high. How do we adapt to the coming changes.

Thats what we need to be worried about right now.

Posted 862 days ago.

mythravere

"The right’s refusal to accept the science prevents it from proposing conservative solutions. Conservatives create a vacuum, and the left gets to occupy that vacuum without a fight."

Thats whats bothered me about all of this.

Outside of the argument about whats to blame for the climate changing we know the earth is warming. We know this is going to have bad effects. The left has their position on what to do. The right though? Its all about denying what the left is trying to do. When instead they could easily argue from the standpoint of a conservative approach to dealing with the threats the climate change is throwing at us.

Posted 862 days ago.

harryanderson

To put it another way…

The “socialist left” is very happy to accept the climate science that the right rejects--and then try to use the science to promote their nefarious agenda.

The right’s refusal to accept the science prevents it from proposing conservative solutions. Conservatives create a vacuum, and the left gets to occupy that vacuum without a fight.

Posted 862 days ago.

harryanderson

I suspect that many in the counter climate change movement unwittingly play into the hands of the “socialist left.”

As many as half of young people consider conservatives who reject the scientific consensus ignorant or out-of-touch.

*******ww w.lcv.or g/issues/polling/youth-voters-poll.pdf

The less-reasonable voices in the counter climate change movement give the socialist left more room to appear reasonable. Your enemies always get fat on what you leave behind.

That’s sad.

Posted 862 days ago.

harryanderson

Actually, Tiredofit, I share that sentiment.

I too question the motives of the IPCC and the socialist left in this country.

Posted 862 days ago.

harryanderson

Even though the counter climate change movement’s campaign has fooled some people lately, the report that forms the basis of the article cited by Tiredofit reports on p. 27:

“These three groups--the Alarmed, the Concerned, and the Cautious—currently compose two-thirds of the American public. Although they range in certainty about the reality and dangers of climate change, they are similarly inclined to believe it is a real threat that should be addressed. Thus, some level of support for action is the predominant view among the majority of Americans.”

htt p://environment.yale.edu/climate-communication/files/Climate-Beliefs-November-2013.pdf

So 2/3 of the American public are inclined to believe, despite the counter climate change movement’s efforts, climate change is a real threat that should be addressed.

Posted 862 days ago.

mythravere

Ithink you say you see God in the heavens and earth and in the love of a mother.

Well when I consider the possibility of a creator I see like the often seen picture of Footprints in the Sand footprints of what to me is a wonderful mystery. Take the simplicity in how a whirligig of a maple tree goes about its business. Fascinating that nature would choose to make that little thing work that way.

There are so many examples of that kind of thing I could go on and on.

Those things cause me to conclude that if there is a creator....well he's one heck of an engineer. The logic alone to make things as they are....a lot of what's written in the bible that is claimed to be the word of god...it justs seems rather petty for something that is capable of so much.

And all that we see around us is simply footprints in the sand.

I wonder if there is a creator but since I can't say for sure by the sight of my own eyes I withhold my own judgement.

Posted 862 days ago.

mythravere

Oh one more thing. For me to take up belief in any religion to me it feels like I would have to then deny that the beliefs of others are not true so to speak.

Being that way makes me uncomfortable.

I don't like shutting people out like that.

To me its another point of division.

Posted 862 days ago.

mythravere

Now Ithink let me say this. Faith works for you. You don't it seems have a need nor want to question things. I understand and respect that.

Questioning things is a part of who I am. Questioning things is what lead me to be who I am today. If I can't answer a question then I suspend any kind of belief toward the thing I am questioning.

Another aspect of who I am is that I really have no personal need for there to be a God. Because that leads into another aspect of my personality. I am very comfortable with not knowing. If you know what I mean.

Posted 862 days ago.

Conclusive evidence of God? That's why it is called faith, myth.

But I see it when I see the heavens and the earth, and a mother's love.

Posted 862 days ago.

harryanderson

“Global warming denial hits a six year high.”

I’m sure that’s comforting for people like you, Tiredofit, since you wrote, “it’s a political agenda, not a scientific discussion.”

And it’s true that the counter climate change movement is currently winning the political debate in the US, even as they continue to badly lose the scientific debate.

Still, since just 3% of voters 18 to 34 believe climate change isn’t happening, the political consensus will, in time, follow the scientific consensus, as it did with the link between smoking and cancer, the ozone hole, and other scientific findings that have been politicized.

Posted 862 days ago.

mythravere

Well we can start a new forum topic when the time is good for you. Enjoy your luncheon.

Posted 862 days ago.

luvthesouth

mythravere, it appears as if you have put quite a bit of thought into the subject. that is a good thing. i would love to have this discussion with you...but two things...1) the others posting on this topic may not appreciate the deviation and 2) i have burgers on the grill for a luncheon we are having in a couple of hours.

Posted 862 days ago.

harryanderson

As Tiredofit notes, the US has spent quite a bit of money on climate studies.

Thanks for pointing this out, Tiredofit. And the overwhelming conclusions, according to the Weekly Standard, have been:

“The burning of oil, gas, and especially coal pumps carbon dioxide and other gases into the atmosphere, where they allow the sun’s heat to penetrate to the Earth’s surface but impede its escape, thus causing the lower atmosphere and the Earth’s surface to warm. Essentially everybody, (including the skeptics’ darling, Richard) Lindzen included, agrees.”

Posted 862 days ago.
 
 
 
 

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