Okay, gun fetish folks, tell those 20 dead elementary school children at Sandy Hook School in Newtown, CT. why you think everyone should be packing firearms!

“In an ever changing climate with ice ages and warming cycles, what is the baseline?”

It’s not so much a “baseline” as our ability to adapt to the speed of changes. You yourself mentioned thousands of years and wrote, “They receded at some point long before man SUVs or power plants.”

Scientists predict significant changes over the next century. We don’t have thousands of years. I believe we can adapt to this change. Since the change is relatively rapid, it seems wise to me that we begin adapting as soon as possible.

“I don't know how anyone could deny the massive raging fireball some 93 million miles away and the solar flares on said fireball. I have yet to hear a rational explanation for the multiple heating and cooling cycles that the earth has seen.”

From the same NASA source I just quoted, here’s your “rational explanation.”

“The Earth's climate has changed throughout history. Just in the last 650,000 years there have been seven cycles of glacial advance and retreat, with the abrupt end of the last ice age about 7,000 years ago marking the beginning of the modern climate era — and of human civilization. Most of these climate changes are attributed to very small variations in Earth’s orbit that change the amount of solar energy our planet receives.”

“I believe that climate change is a natural cycle and not associated with carbon release. “

I agree that “climate change is a natural cycle.”

I also agree with the following statement:

“Certain facts about Earth's climate are not in dispute:

The heat-trapping nature of carbon dioxide and other gases was demonstrated in the mid-19th century. Their ability to affect the transfer of infrared energy through the atmosphere is the scientific basis of many JPL-designed instruments, such as AIRS. Increased levels of greenhouse gases must cause the Earth to warm in response.”

htt p://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

When exactly was the world right? In an ever changing climate with ice ages and warming cycles, what is the baseline?

So I guess if we were having this conversation 16000 years ago, you would be concerned that the glaciers were not covering South Bend?

I used to live in northern Indiana, intersting geography there. Lots of lakes and know how they were formed? Yup GLACIERS. They say it was 16000 years ago and they were there for hundreds of years moving about a foot a day. They receded at some point long before man SUVs or power plants.

I don't know how anyone could deny the massive raging fireball some 93 million miles away and the solar flares on said fireball. I have yet to hear a rational explanation for the multiple heating and cooling cycles that the earth has seen.

As for the political aspect, it is almost impossible to seperate the two. For years we have heard dire predictions about the seething earth from folks like Al Gore and Ted Turner. I think there are many folks, none here, who profit from the whole affair and the mighty dollar is the biggest driver. Lots of talk about the profits of big oil, I will remind you that the so called green companies are not run by altruistic hippies just doing what's right.

Harry when I said you guys, I actually meant you guys, those that were saying that a lack of warming didn't show a lack of warming. I really meant you guys, not a generaization. I believe that climate change is a natural cycle and not associated with carbon release. I am not pro pollution, as co2 is not a pollutant.

Sorry thats what it looks like from my perspective.

And as far as the climate change issue I dont know how anyone can be so convinced its not real or man made whichever group you fall into.

I chalk a lot of that up to the issue being assigned a label as a left wing cause therefor it needs to be vehemently denied train of thought.

I agree that we shouldn’t “lump (others) in a group…with phrases such as YOU GUYS.”

I believe in freedom of association. Let’s allow people to pick their own groups and to have opinions that a majority of their chosen group may not share. Collectivist cultures such as some Asian and Native American enforce uniform thinking in groups, but we here in individualistic America discourage groupthink.

Let’s respect others’ uniqueness.

Therefore, maybe we shouldn’t posts things like, “The lack of warming does not show a lack of warming????? you people will buy anything I guess.”

Myth you love to use sweeping generality with phrases such as YOU GUYS. Making straw men makes it easy to pigeonhole folks and the arguments they make. Its not as simple as you try to make it. I don't have a anti Obama agenda, nor a pro fossil fuel one. I am not a slave to right wing anything but I guess its easier to just lump me in a group, demonize my motives and dismiss me.

Is r1kr8b a drama queen?

" move this to the threads dedicated to wacko warming, cooling, no change Climate Change?"

Random if you actually looked at the facts about climate change and resolved to be honest about what see in those facts you would see the truth about it.

But you see the issue as one side's political cause which it isn't. And that influences your opinion.

It is an issue that is pertinent to all of us.

Its ok to be skeptical but your posts suggest you are ignorant as all get out on the issue.

And when you post. And say what you do. To me it marks you as a dishonest person.

Nope not going anywhere. LOL!

I might if I could see the dialog on here become unpolitical. These issues dont have to involve politics.

But I dont think that is even minutely possible. For one thing I've noticed quite a few folks on here are drama queens. And drama queens absolutely get off on being contentious.

Which leads to another issue with having unbiased discussion. I have noticed that quite a few folks can only function in a conversation when it is adversarial in nature. Furthermore few if any can or are willing to concede when they are wrong on an issue.

People can't check their ego's at the proverbial door if you will.

But that is to be expected when one party is absolute in its aims to quash what the other side brings to the table regardless of what the facts say about a given issue.

you know it is getting bad when the right starts using Bill.the prudes sure have lived a sheltered life.

their decline into madness sure is fun to watch though.

" LaPierre told several thousand people that the "political and media elites" have tried to use December's shooting at a Newtown, Conn., elementary school and other recent mass shootings "to blame us, to shame us, to compromise our freedom for their agenda." "

. . .

NRA leaders say gun rights fight far from over

(foxnews.mobi)

But, but, but, but, but, but, but, oh, look, a hole in the ground. Could you, would you, please, move this to the threads dedicated to wacko warming, cooling, no change Climate Change? BTW Bill Maher said that: "Obama would still be a Community Organizer if he had been busted for the pot he was so into." Not even a mention of Obama's assertion that he also bought and sold c0caine. Some of the things that makes one absolutely dumbfounded to the events of 2008 and after inflicting massive damage on the country repeated in 2012. We are not the absolutists, the Left has absolutely lost their collective minds.

I know that's silly but taking an absolutist position on everything being done only as you see fit is even more silly. In fact it's downright damaging to OUR country.

Obama becoming president messed you guys up so much you dont know your buts from a hole in the ground.

No that wasn't the proposed solution. But someone has to bring a thread of good reasoning into the discussion.

Like Harry mentioned this is an issue that is best solved by engineers not politicians.

And like Harry said lets not resort to rash action which I might add politicians are apt to doing. When he mentioned that it applied to both sides of the political spectrum. At least it looked as if it did to me.

Part of the problem is that its impossible to discuss this issue without partisan politics muddying up the dialog. Which is further aggravated by the simple fact that some folks just cant switch off the need to shut down what the other side is concerned about.

I'll sum that sentiment up like this. Obama can drum up droves of business for dentists. All he has to do is indorse the use of toothpaste and the folks that dont like him will stop using it out of spite.