Okay, gun fetish folks, tell those 20 dead elementary school children at Sandy Hook School in Newtown, CT. why you think everyone should be packing firearms!

"They have no issue lying to achieve thier goal". And govt is never guilty of such things?????

it is unfortunate that randomthoughts has chosen not to post consistant with this topic after his 'request' for others to vacate & post under an appropriate topic.i always try to extend a respectful response to others,and it can now be noted that random only respects his/ her personal agenda.

There are many things that are theory and conjecture at this point. Again I ask, how much warming has occurred in the last ten years? The answwer I get is none yet CO2 levels have risen steadily. Maybe I have bad info? Perhaps.

Nice how you label me as "you guys". Show me the respect of dealing with me as an individual or I have no interest in discussing this with you. Funding is a large issue in this and I will mention it as I see fit thank you.

And please do leave the funding contention out of it. There is no point in even caring about that issue when you guys fail to account and hold accountable the forces that sow doubt about climate change.

You say seeking funding is the reason climate change is an issue and decry that as a problem. But I dont see you folks going after the climate change denial groups that has been set up by the fossil fuel industry.

And I dont care about Al Gore. Why do you guys focus on Al Gore? Its silly. But it indicative of the how the issue has been politicized.

Once something gets labeled as a leftist cause you guys pretty much put your fingers in your ears going lalalalalalala "I cant hear you" You're wrong. No. No. No.

Once its got that label its automatic distrust along with assuming that there is an agenda. Right off the bat with no real debate on the issue. And then you got fossil fuel industry people setting up fronts to sow doubt about the issue.

It shouldn't be that hard to see that those companies dont care about the effects of climate change. All they care about is money. And to keep that money flowing to them they gotta stamp out anything and everything that threatens it.

They have no issue with lying to achieve their goals.

Perhaps you can get me unquestionable proof as to why I should not under any circumstances trust what the scientists are saying.

But like I said we are taking carbon that has been locked up for centuries and putting it back into the atmosphere. You just can not get away from that affecting the air we breath. Thats where this cycle is different. There is no known natural cause of this current warming at least the bulk of it.

I recommend watching the great documentary Chasing Ice. In that you get to see an ice field bigger than Manhattan and taller than all the buildings of Manhattan pretty much turn over. You also get to see glacial recession among other things.

But you will just see it as an agenda.

The Martian "ice" caps annually recede with the onset of Martian summer. Besides its composition is a little different than our ice caps. Its dry ice. You know solidified co2.

Check out NASA SCIENCE about how the ice caps on Mars are receding, yes NASA not some fringe website. Why would the ice caps of Mars melt? Could it be we share. SUN?

Al gore has been thoroughly debunked with his doom and gloom hockey stick model.

I would say climate effects man, man dies not effect climate. Take a moment and look at historic cycles and how a warming cycle causes migrations north to new land now hospitable, and away from warmer places. Just the opposite is true during cooling periods of course. Explain to me the many heating and cooling periods that are said to have occurred and how this particular cycle is different.

Check you favorite warmer site and tell me how much warming has occurred in the last 10 years.

Ok, when exactly was the climate correct? If you had been born during the ice age, would you have used that as your baseline? History clearly demonstrates the there are trends in climate or do you disagree? I won't be as arrogant as to say anything is undeniable, because all facts we toss around what we have read somewhere and chose to believe or reject.

" Get this thread back on track and move over to Harry's forum about this myth and other leftist religions."

NO.

Dont like what I post simply ignore it.

If you had reasonably stated that you wished for this thread to go back to the original topic I would accomodate your wish. But seeing that comment...yea no compromise.

And you guys talk about follow the money well how about following the money when it comes to who finances climate change denial?

What's good for the goose is good for the gander!

Also its not hard to understand how man can affect the climate. We are essentially taking an ancient atmosphere that was locked up in various forms of carbon in the earth and reintroducing it into the atmosphere. We are changing the chemistry of the air we breath.

That is undeniable.

When I was speaking of agendas you completely got it wrong. I was talking of the agendas you see or at least think you see surrounding climate change.

You know I hope you cant be counted in amongst those like the conspiracy theorists. The people who have a belief and will shut out anything that contradicts their beliefs. The people that when a "fact" they put forth gets shot down they just move the goalposts and then turn around and invent a conspiracy as to why someone shot down their theory.

35 to 40 years ago scientists said that we were entering a mini iceage, and that fossil fuels would be gone in 25 years. There is only one trend I see, and it has to do with arrogance in the scientific community.

Well mod, without being there i cannot say for sure however if it is receded, I argue that it is a natural cycle and not tied to carbon in any way shape matter or form

Hot, burning ball of gas in sky cause problems. Mother Earth has self-healing powers nobody understands. More research, more money. Follow the money.. Wind farms of green energy production may also be producing disruptions of local weather patterns especially in west Texas drought areas. Unintended consequences are a landmark of Leftist social engineering. Get this thread back on track and move over to Harry's forum about this myth and other leftist religions.