Smoke Signals?
Organizations with bingo claim smoking regs shouldn’t applyBy JODY MURPHY
Article Photos
PARKERSBURG - Is the Mid-Ohio Valley Health Department blowing smoke when it comes to enforcing its clean indoor air regulations in bingo halls?
Some local fraternal organizations are wondering.
Initially, many of the fraternal organizations that ran weekly bingo games thought they would be exempt from the smoking ban when regulations went into effect in October.
The six-page clean air indoor regulation from the Mid-Ohio Valley Health Department lists seven areas where smoking is not regulated, including bingo halls.
While the other six exemptions, such as bars and "free-standing video lottery rooms" are defined, "bingo hall" is not. The ambiguity left many in the Mid-Ohio Valley -including some health department enforcement officials - wondering if bingo halls in the area would be exempt from the smoking regulations.
Debbie Schreckengost, manager of the Veterans of Foreign Wars Post 1212, said she was initially told by officials smoking would be permitted in the VFW's bingo hall.
"The regulation is not very clear," she said.
But a few weeks later health department officials reversed course and told the VFW, as well several other fraternal organizations, the bingo halls would have to comply with the smoking ban.
"Initially, we thought we were exempt because of our bingo," said Sonya Rumer, facility manager of the Fraternal Order of Eagles. "They came a few weeks later and basically retracted it."
Tim Miller, environmental health director for the Mid-Ohio Valley Health Department, said officials concluded for business to be exempt from the regulations, bingo halls must be bingo halls. Miller said claims by fraternal organizations that run twice-weekly bingo games don't stand up.
"What we are going by is if they are in business to be a bingo hall," he said. "In six counties we don't have any of those. Joe's bar can have bingo. That doesn't make it a bingo hall."
However, Miller can cite no legal definition of a bingo hall.
"We don't have one," he said. "I couldn't tell you why. I didn't write the regulation. I am just the guy that has to enforce it."
Miller said officials sought to apply the regulations fairly and uniformly.
"We didn't have one person allowed to do bingo and telling eight others they are not allowed," he said. "It is enforced across the board. We try to be fair about it. We want to be fair."
Rumer thinks the smoking regulations have hindered the Eagles' bingo business.
"A lot of our players do smoke," she said.
But Larry Hamilton, the bingo committee co-chairman, along with Paul Borrelli for the Knights of Columbus, said their bingo crowd has increased.
"It has actually been a bit of a plus for us," Hamilton said. "We lost a couple of players, but we are also getting players we hadn't seen before."
Hamilton said revenue is up, thanks to the concentration of the Knights' bingo crowd. Rather than have the crowd spread over two rooms (one for smokers and another for non-smokers) Hamilton said the group is concentrated into one room.
Hamilton admitted the Knights have had only two non-smoking sessions - one that included a free spaghetti dinner -but he thinks the regulation will be a positive down the road.
Hamilton also said he's had an easier time getting fellow Knights to work bingo.
"They didn't want to work in the (smoke-filled) atmosphere,' he said.
Hamilton said there were some initial reservations about the new regulations, but if all the other bingo games in the area are on equal footing with no smoking, things will even out.
"I think in the end this is going to be a blessing for us."
Schreckengost also said the VFW's bingo business is up, but not enough to compensate for the Post 1212's loss of bar business.
"The bar business has taken a nose dive, but the bingo hasn't made that much of a difference."
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OldSoldier
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11-17-08 11:23 AM
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Thank you for your reply DanaLou. I respect you for an honest answer and promise I'd never intentionally smoke around you. The private clubs may very well pick up a few new members Parrothead. The verdict is still out on that one. It seems membership is down in most private organizations such as the Masonic Lodge, VFW, American Legion, etc... I doubt it's due to smoking though. From my observations most of the membership is quite gray in the beard. I have been told by empyloyees at the Legion and VFW that attendance has been way down since the ban. Maybe the non-smokers will fill the void. I doubt it.
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Parrothead
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11-17-08 1:34 AM
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OldSoldier – I wonder how many potential members you have turned away over the years because they did not wish to be subjected to the smoke in your club? I am sure that the majority of your members at the present time smoke, but I wonder if that percentage will decrease as the ban has been in effect for a while. I will also state for the record that I smoke. I do not smoke in my home, my car or inside of any public facility. I have always looked at smoking as a choice I have made for myself and not one that I should make for everyone around me. The truth is, if every smoker showed the common courtesy to others that I try to show them there would be NO smoking bans anywhere. Smokers have brought these bans on themselves.
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Parrothead
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11-17-08 1:25 AM
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Boogitybear – do you own or run a restaurant or bar? If you do, do you serve alcohol at this establishment? If you serve alcohol, doesn’t the government tell you what days and hours you can sell the alcohol? Do they not tell you who you can sell it to? Do they not tell you who you can hire to serve this product to your patrons? I believe that the answer to all of these questions is – YES! SO then answer me this,“ Why are you ok with “someone” telling you how you can run YOUR business if it allows you to sell alcohol, but you are so adamant that you said (And I quote), “I don’t think ANYONE should be able to tell me how to run my own business.” You can’t have your cake and eat it too! If you are willing to allow someone to tell you how to run your business at anytime, you must be willing to allow it all the time.
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DanaLou
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11-17-08 12:20 AM
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Yes Old Soldier, I do patronize the fraternal and veterans clubs and I do not smoke. I am soooo grateful for the smoking ban because now I can go home and not reek of stale cigarette smoke. I also don't have to worry about having an asthma attack. I remember one evening sitting at a table listening to the band play and someone sat down at my table with their cigarette, they looked around for the ash tray and when they didn't see one, they went to another table, got an ash tray, came back and sat down again. They never asked if it was ok or not...they just took it for granted, even my coughing didn't get through to them....Also, Yellingsoccermom says she takes care of herself and you cannot smell the smoke on her breath or clothes...she is mistaken. She might not be able to smell it, but it's there.
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Boogitybear
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11-16-08 4:01 PM
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I dont think ANYONE should be able to tell me how to run my own business..Customers have a choice to give me there business or now to give me yheir business...BTW I am a non-smoker
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yellingsoccermom
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11-16-08 11:15 AM
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It's wrong for me to choose to smoke, but it is also wrong of you to discriminate against smokers...does that make sense? I know it is an ugly habit, and yes, some smokers hygiene is terrible...as I said on this forum or possibly on another with the same issue, I smoke, but, no one knows it because I take care of my breath and clothing. I know it is offensive to non smokers, I try and accomadate them when I am around them, but I still believe that just banning smoking in some, not all places is worng...sorry, I don't think we are going to agree...have a nice day Mr. Alex
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MrAlex
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11-16-08 11:11 AM
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Yes, people can "pick and choose" where they want to go based on if they smoke or not, but then you end up with the issue of that some bars will be known as "Smoker Bars" and some will be "Non-Smoker" bars.... and then we have that issue of that I can't go to your bar and you can't come to mine. What if I want to go to that bar to see a band or hang out with friends? Then I can't go. That affects MY rights. You see? But if a smoker would just leave their pack in the car for a couple of hours, then we could ALL go to ANY bar or restauarnt we want and NO ONE has to be left out. You're free to go home or in your car and smoke till your lungs are pitch black and your lips fall off. Just don't do it around others who don't want to breathe in that poison. We should all have the right to breathe (modestly) clean air.
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MrAlex
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11-16-08 11:08 AM
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No one is saying that "You can't smoke"... they're just saying that you can't smoke in public places where we ALL have the right to be because you're endangering the health and lives of others. People can serve in the military, but that doesn't affect my health. People can drink, but that doesn't affect my health, but when smoke gets in to the air it hurts/affects everyone around the smoker. We don't want to breathe in that poison. But if we're in the same place, we have to breathe the same air, and if you pollute it, I have to breathe it. But if you drink, I don't have to smell it, taste it, or have my health endangerd by it. You see the dif?
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yellingsoccermom
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11-16-08 11:08 AM
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It is a very serious addiction and if one has never had the addiction they probably have no idea how bad it really is. I can go 4-5 hours without smoking, some choose not to. I'm not saying "stay at home"...but, pick and choose where you want to go. If smoking is allowed and it is that offensive to you, then don't go to that particular place. You can be assured there are places that are entirely "non smoking"...well, everywhere is now, but before the smoking ban...there were non-smoking establishments. There is no way you can get away from negative smells, not in this valley. Our air is polluted no matter where you go. I don't know what the answer is, but I don't think it is what the health department is doing. Thanks.
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MrAlex
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11-16-08 11:06 AM
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Yes, yellingsoccermom, but if just ONE non-smoking person wants to go in to a public establishment to gamble or whatever, they should still have that right.... and if smoking is allowed, then there's the problem. You can't say any place is open to the public, and expect that ONLY smokers will go there. We should ALL have the right to go in to ANY public place. Smoking just has to be a no-no since some people don't smoke. There's no other way to make that fair. And if smokers can't be out for an hour without a smoke, they can go out to their car and have a cigerette, then come back in.
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MrAlex
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11-16-08 11:03 AM
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And the bottom line is this: If there is a public place, that means it's for everyone; smokers and non-smokers. But for smokers to say that their "rights" are being taken away, what about the rights of the non-smokers to NOT have to breathe that poison? Smokers have not cared about OUR rights for years and years. But if a place is open to the public, we should all be able to go. However, in NO circumstance should ANYONE be allowed to endanger the health or lives of any of the other people, whether they're smokers or non-smokers. So the only solution that's fair is to say NO SMOKING for everyone. The reason is that "NOT smoking" doesn't hurt anyone. But Smoking hurts us all. Yes, you have a right to smoke and hurt yourself, but you NEVER have the right to hurt others. And even if it wasn't unhealthy, good god, it just stinks.
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yellingsoccermom
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11-16-08 11:02 AM
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Also, if a person can vote, serve in the military, or is of legal age to drink...why can't they make the decision to smoke? We aren't hurtng non-smokers if they don't frequent such places...actually, you can die tomorrow of a car accident more frequently than you can die from second hand smoke...
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MrAlex
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11-16-08 10:59 AM
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Yellingsoccermom.... I agree... I'm not here to fight with you or anyone else, either... and a compromise would be nice, However when it comes to smokers and non-smokers sharing the same space, the NO SMOKING thing has to be the only fair way to go. As I said before, "smoking sections" are a joke. Maybe smokers don't notice it, but non-smokers really do. Smoke drifts... it gets all over a room regardless of where signs are places. Smoke can't read. And no one should have to stay home, and no one should have to breathe in someone else's smoke. The only thing to do is tell smokers to smoke at home. Can a smoker not go out some where and just leave their pack in the car for an hour or two? Can smokers really not go without a smoke for an hour or two to go out to dinner, or hang out in a club for 3 hours? Is the addiction that bad? If it is, then someone like that needs a doctor to cure that addiction. It's a problem if someone can't go an hour, or two, or three witho
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yellingsoccermom
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11-16-08 10:58 AM
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As I read the posts here, I find that for non-smokers, it is all or nothing. It seems every coment about fixing the problem is not good enough. You have the choice to breathe clean air, you have the choice to patronize establishments that offer smoking and non smoking areas...that isn't good enough for you, you want smoking banned from every place...it doesn't matter...no compromise for you. As a smoker myself, before the ban, I made my decision whether to go into a place that was non smoking. I did that because I had a choice, with this ban, there are no choices. So, why do you think you are above others that smoke? I would just like a simple answer to that. Lady states that she doesn't go to bars, etc...so what is the problem...I'm still trying to understand that one!
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JoJo
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11-16-08 12:32 AM
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ladynoogs, move to the mountains if u want fresh clean air to breath, cause around here you are breathing all the plants emissions.
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yellingsoccermom
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11-16-08 12:31 AM
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Lady, I agree with you regarding the diabetic that eats chocolate and the person who has extreme fat/cholestrol in their bodies, but, they make the decision to eat chocolate or fast food, in looking at non-smokers, they have the choice also to go into an establishment that allows smoking or not to. It should be the decision of the individual...not the government. I think it is wrong to ban something, it is taking a right away from those who CHOOSE to smoke. If a person chooses not to go to places who offer a smoking/non smoking areas, then that is also their choice.
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yellingsoccermom
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11-16-08 12:23 AM
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As a smoker, I agree that smoking in restaurants where children are shouldn't be allowed..but, I go back to the smoking, non-smoking areas. What is wrong with that? Would someone please elaborate? Children aren't allowed in bars and gambling establishments, only responsible adults, am I correct in that? So, if only responsible adults are allowed, can't that same responsible adult make a decision whether to patronize the establishment where smoking is allowed? Non-smokers have the responsibility to take their own actions. Don't place blame on smokers when the choice is that of the individual...
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ladynoogs
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11-15-08 11:06 PM
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you know.... i'm on the fence about the smoking in bar thing... i dont go anywhere my kids cant go really... never been into the bar thing, well not since college. BUT if i ever did decide to go out with a friend or my husband or something we'd probably choose a non-smoking bar over a smoking bar anyday.
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Ricotubbs
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11-15-08 10:48 PM
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"To you " nonsmokers".. I wish i didn't , but easier said than done to quit. What about the person who goes into the bar , drinks, gets drunk and gets behind the wheel of a car?" Actually its funny you bring that up cause they actually did a study that showed DUIs went up after bars enforced smoking rules because people go further to go to bars they can smoke in. *******wgns.wordpress****/2008/04/09/study-smoking-bans-lead-to-increased-duis/
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Ricotubbs
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11-15-08 10:42 PM
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If your in a bar drinking Whiskey and beer I think the last thing on your mind is your health. I agree with any establishment where children are served should be non smoking but if your actually complaining about a bar which allows smoking then its coming down to your personal preference and nothing else because your doing more damage to your liver and brain cells then that smoke is doing to your lungs. Private clubs should leave it up to the paying members.
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OldSoldier
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11-15-08 10:15 PM
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Thank you for an honest answer ladynoogs. It's been my observation that most employees and club members smoke and most of those who don't smoke obviously don't mind, otherwise they wouldn't be there. In all honesty, I'm sure there are those who patronize these clubs who are in favor of the new ruling. I'd bet the numbers are small though.
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ladynoogs
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11-15-08 10:04 PM
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oldsolider i do not patranize those clubs... and probably never will. Can you honestly tell me that no-one who goes in those clubs or works in those clubs are non-smokers?
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ladynoogs
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11-15-08 10:02 PM
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yellow soccer mom... for one.. that diebtic who eats choclate is only harming themself.. same goes for those who eat to mucy fast food.. the only person they are harming phyiscally is themself.. thats whats so different about smoking. My husband is a smoker and he is all for the ban beleive it or not.. he smokes outside our home even when its below zero.. he does not smoke in the car when our kids are in it. I know how hard it is to quit.. i've watched my husband struggle for 12 years to quit.. my best friend and her husband smoke.. they are also for the ban, dont smoke in their home or around children. i've met many parents who are smokers who agree with the ban.. i've also met non-smokers who are against the ban like my parents. this isn't soley divided into smokers vs non-smokers.
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OldSoldier
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11-15-08 9:55 PM
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I know we've hashed this over on previous articles, but I have yet to get an answer to a question I have for the anti-smoking crowd. Do you patronize any of the fraternal or veterans clubs? I really don't mind if eating establishments has a smoking ban. I respect that ruling and can live with it. Ths smoking ban on private clubs bewilders me. I don't know if I can get an honest answer from the anti-smoking crusaders, but feel free to let us know.
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rantnrave
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11-15-08 9:25 PM
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YELLING SOCCER MOM..YOU'RE WASTING YOUR TIME TRYING TO DEFEND SMOKING TO THIS BUNCH. THEY ONLY SEE THEIR SIDE OF IT. IF THEY SMOKED,THEY WOULD ALL BE AGAINST THE BAN ALSO. THEY ARE SAYING US SMOKERS HAVE NO RIGHTS,STINK AND ARE JUST IGNORANT LOW LIFES IN GENERAL OUT TO KILL EVERYONE WITH OUR SMOKE.I'M JUST WAITING FOR THE DAY WHEN ONE OF THEIR PRECIOUS PLEASURES IN LIFE GETS TAKEN AWAY FROM THEM.I SURE WON'T BE THE FIRST IN LINE TO SHOW ANY COMPASSION. I AGREE THERE COULD BE A COMPROMISE WORKED OUT IN SOME WAY,BUT NO ONE IS WILLING TO EVEN TRY, MUCH LESS LISTEN AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND THE SMOKERS SIDE.
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