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Gun issue needs rational debate

January 20, 2013

The public clamor and letters to the editor pertaining to gun control nearly have gotten out of han....

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(31)

denver

Jan-20-13 7:22 AM

Well written article! Well put Jim Smith.

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Antisthenes56

Jan-20-13 8:05 AM

I gotta agree with denver. Well said Jim !!!

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hindsight

Jan-20-13 5:22 PM

Let's talk about treason. Isn't it treasonous to go against the very founding principles of the very founding document of our nation? Isn't it treasonous for Ronald Reagan and Charles Rangle to sign an executive order after congress said no to the FOPA in 1986? I do agree that Machine Guns need regulated in the fashion they are. I do agree no one needs a nuke not even the governments of the world. but to take away the same type of hardware a government has when the founding documents are cleat "shall not" means in no shape or form. Regulations are ok when they protect the citizen's from each other but when they only protect the government from it's citizen's or puts them in a position of a tyrannical authoritarian government who only wants a one world government then no. If you think I am wrong look at history look at we set up the U.N. the very same group wanting a world gun ban. Why disarm the citizens unless you want to keep all in a line for what ever you pose on them?

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hindsight

Jan-20-13 5:29 PM

Our founders weren't stupid they knew some power hungry men would seek a one world rule. They knew the only way to balance power would be to keep the citizen's armed with identical weapon's that the powers that be have. Should we head for insurrection? Of course not but an armed citizenry is why we as a nation have what we have here and now. Like it or not it was the founders who took up arms against those who only allowed justice when it served them. We have that going on now. Look at all the rich who are charged with crimes in our congress not a one of them goes to prison. Many even stay in power. Charles Rangle is proof of that. He was recently charged with and found guilty of multiple felonies only to still remain as a NY congressman. eric Holder and Fast and furious never even tried for his crime. So if we don't stay armed how far will these men really go? The country should never have to find out without means to take it back.

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denver

Jan-20-13 6:25 PM

So "hindsight" you think people should own Battleships, Rocket launcher, and Strike Drones? Because that's what the Government has. And all we have to do if "all of us" what to overthrow our Government is just to vote them out of office. Something our founding Fathers didn't have the option of doing!

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AaronS

Jan-21-13 6:00 AM

I agree rational discussion is needed. I can think of none more rational then those used during the ratification of the Constitution when Madison stated that Europe bans arms because they are afraid to arm their citizenry out of distrust and fear, Jefferson stated numerous times that it was not only a right of the citizens to be armed but a duty, Adams stated that while the government controls the militia, the right of the citizen to bear arms is a fundamental right, Noah Webster stated the supreme power of the US was the whole body of America armed, and Richard Lee stated that to preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of the people possess arms.

I could go on as the vast majority of our FF’s supported the right to bear arm but for me, none say it better than Franklin who stated “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”

The truth is, if you want to ban guns, you have to change the Constitution

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MadAsHeck

Jan-21-13 3:18 PM

Once again, more proof right her on the failed American Public Education System. People in general have no understanding of our nation's founding and of it's founding documents. The Second Amendment is part of our nation's laws for a VERY specific reason, it has nothing to do with hunting.

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hindsight

Jan-21-13 7:39 PM

I agree mad as heck

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hindsight

Jan-21-13 7:45 PM

Denver if a person passes the muster who says they shouldn't be able to? why not? I don't think any of that is sold a t wal-mart. You have to pass a class III backgroundcheck and the batfe is the ones who run that. Also anyone with half a brain can make a drone. There use to be a fellow with a remote helicopter and full auto BB gun strapped to it on the net a while back.He went by Apocolypse LEON I showed it to a friend of mine who is a DEA agent he was like "i want one with a .22" Also there is a version with a shotgun attached to it look it up on you tube.

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AaronS

Jan-21-13 8:49 PM

I'm curious denver, are there any other amendments besides the 1st and 2nd that you wish to change outside the Constitutional method?

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republican

Jan-21-13 11:03 PM

The revolution is near!!!! Hopefully all these losers in DC can see what they are doing (the liberals) to this country and the working Americans and correct our nations course before it is too late. Jim Smith---the article was well written. However, how far do you think us working people can be pushed to pay for all the bums in this country before we finally crack?

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slingblade

Jan-22-13 11:28 AM

EVERYBODY is focusing on the WRONG thing, these mass shootings have very very little to do with making more gun laws...imagine if we spent the $ training our school counselors and teachers each year on how to recognize signs of mental health issues and then have a system in place where these individuals can talk to an actual medical doctor BEFORE they go off the deep end...laws only change behaviour in rational, moral, law abiding citizens..not criminals or people with mental health issues...how can the "smart" elected officials not see this?? That is why I am so frustrated.

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slingblade

Jan-22-13 11:31 AM

Does anybody in DC have any critical thinking skills at all...can anybody in DC look at actual real data and make an informed decision? Will you all vote for me if I run for office? I will self limit myself to 1 term. (pay to attention to what party I am registered, does it really matter anyway?)

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slingblade

Jan-22-13 11:33 AM

pay "no" attention to party affiliation...nobody sticks to party ideals anyway once in office...they do what they want...or I should say..they do whatever the special interest that line their pockets want them to do.

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republican

Jan-22-13 2:40 PM

slingblade...you are absolutely right about law abiding citizens being the only ones who obey laws. I just can't understand why people think criminals and mental nuts are going to pay attention to a new law. It is absolutely ludicrous to think any differently. Why are people so dumb to think any different.? Common sense in this country is very rare these days and darn near extinct in DC.

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AaronS

Jan-22-13 9:12 PM

The people defending the right to bear arms rave is James Madison, George Washington, Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, Alexander Hamilton and a host of other founding fathers. You really should research the topic and read those words instead of watching CNN and MSMBC and listening to idiots like Bill Maher, who recently stated that "most of the Constitution is BS."

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republican

Jan-22-13 10:50 PM

People of this great nation are in fear of what has happened to UK and Australia. They had their firearms confiscated due to the liberal agenda and now those countries are ruled instead of governed. We don't want that in the US. I lived in the UK for three years and it is really a different world over there. The violent crime is about 3x higher than here per capita of course. Gun violence is lower but overall violent crime is very high. I don't think anyone wants that to happen here.

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stickhauler

Jan-23-13 12:57 AM

If, as this column states, the "gun issue" needs a rational debate, why not have one? All I'm seeing the anti-gun side, the side who claims to be all progressive and stuff, is exactly what the column says the pro-gun side is doing. Using extreme language towards any and all who disagree with their specific point of view.

The fact is this: There are currently laws on the books that, if enforced, would have prevented the murderers in these mass killing from laying their hands on a firearm. We have laws that prohibit mentally ill individuals from having access to firearms.

I saw a quote from VP Biden, in response to a question of why we need more laws passed, when we don't even enforce laws about lying on BATFE Form 4473. His answer was "We don't have time to enforce those laws." Huh?

I'm a trucker, our daily hours of service logs are Federal forms, and any funny business on those forms is, in essence, lying on a Federal form. I can assure you, lies on those forms

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denver

Jan-23-13 6:08 AM

"stickhauler" What Comments are you looking at?

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slingblade

Jan-23-13 10:05 AM

@mythravere "The true gun enthusiasts should make it so that people like that dont steer the conversation for them! (such as Ted Nugent)"...well, the same can be said about the gun control people, dont let extremists like Michael Moore be your voice...let's just look at this for a moment...what "if" we could 100% remove every single firearm in the United States, except for law enforcement and military..that would make some of the gun control people very happy...no more gun deaths..right? That may be fine right now, I do not see it any politician right now as downright evil, but something we may need to consider, is the things we cannot think about right now..let's consider for example some point in the future some politician totally dupes us all into thinking they are a great person and we elect them and once in office they completely do a 180 and start doing bad things we all do not agree with (this has happened around the world throughout history and even in the

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slingblade

Jan-23-13 10:06 AM

cont from below.....(this has happened around the world throughout history and even in the last 75 years..so it is really that far fetched of a concept?)

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slingblade

Jan-23-13 10:07 AM

(cont from below)...now..back to your point you made about "get what they want but at what cost to this nation?"...if a political leader wanted to force unwilling people..they would have to consider the "cost"...if 300 million guns are on the streets it would be a nightmare to try to control people by force..however...if police and military are the only ones with weapons..the path would be a lot easier and therefore maybe an easier decision to go down that route...now..that being said..that is just a farfetched hypothetical that is probably not close to reality...just a thought..now...back to rational argument...(cont. above)

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slingblade

Jan-23-13 10:07 AM

1) all the recent mass shootings like 12 laws were broken, so 13 laws would have prevented it? (really?) 2) correlation between # of guns related to deaths, well..that doesn’t hold any water either..the UK and Canada are similar to the U.S. as any other country in the world and the UK has tough gun laws and low murder by gun rate and Canada has tons of guns per capita and low murder 3) It’s the violent games and movies…well..Japan..again..and industrialized country like the US, has way more violent games and movies than the US and yet there are like 20 murders a year in that country. So, the way I see it, there are already a lot of good gun laws on the books that are not being enforced, let’s start enforcing those, then, if it appears we need more laws, let’s put it on the table and consider it. (cont)

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slingblade

Jan-23-13 10:08 AM

However, one thing that cannot be denied, is all of these people that go off the deep end and do these mass shootings, they all have mental issues, that if the signs were recognized and there was infrastructure in place for them to get treatment early, then ALL of these may have been avoided and these people would have actually had a good shot at being productive members of society, so why don’t we take all of the $ and talking points in that direction? Is any of this not meaningful or rational points?

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stickhauler

Jan-23-13 10:35 PM

Denver, what is so difficult to understand? Biden says we need new gun laws, but we can't take the time to enforce current laws! So, we pass MORE laws the cops don't have time to enforce?

I've made the same statement to many anti-gun people, and present the same challenge here. Offer me even a shread of evidence that any of the proposed laws the left want will actually stop gun violence. Then, we'll talk. We don't need your insults, we don't need your hysterical hissy fits (either side of the issue).

Proposing legislation based on emotions rather than logic and reason are pointless gestures. They don't magically fix a problem.

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